Well this is the first time I have done this, so I’m kind of excited. Basically, Isaiah wrote a blog in response to my video blog, These Signs Should Follow, and now I get to respond to his response. Let me first say that I love my brother in Christ (Isaiah), and his blog is one of my favorites. Having different view points should not imply that we have made it a priority to rip each other to shreds on the information superhighway. In fact, I enjoy being challenged spiritually. It motivates me to study the Word of God, which is always a pleasure!
Alright, let’s get to the response…
This is just a debate that baffles me. I don’t understand what the argument is…to be perfectly honest. Although, you present your side in a very respectable and balanced way, I still can’t shake the feeling that there is bitterness?
I have yet to meet anyone that searches for signs and wonders, and needs them in order to believe in God. However, I have seen many people who spend a lot of their time making arguments against signs and wonders. Is it really that threatening of an issue? I personally don’t think so. Are people who believe that signs and wonders are for today going to hell? Why would they?
People like to quote Matthew 24:24, but what is this verse really saying?
“For false christs and false prophets will arise and perform great signs and wonders, so as to lead astray, if possible, even the elect.”
Notice the “if possible” part. In other words, the elect would be lead astray IF IT WERE POSSIBLE. How could we be lead astray if we are filled with the Spirit of Truth as we have been commanded to be? Those who are lead astray are not the elect. They do not have the Spirit of Truth, which is the Holy Spirit, therefore they are not saved.
I’ve noticed that many people use this scripture to support their fears. If you are abiding in Christ and the Spirit of Truth is in you, what are you afraid of? Do you not trust that God will not lead you down the wrong path?
For me, false signs and wonders are boring, and obvious to spot. Why? Because they don’t turn my focus to the Lord. The Holy Spirit points to Jesus. If the Holy Spirit doesn’t do the miracle, people don’t turn to Jesus. When I have seen a true sign or a wonder, it is almost impossible not to fall on my face and worship our Lord and Savior.
If people are missing this experience, it’s not my place to judge whether they are saved or not (as some Pentecostal/Charismatics will do). All I can say is that if you haven’t encountered God in this way…what are you waiting for? The veil was torn!
I could go on and on, but my time is limited. There are demons to be cast out, and people that need healed. Glory to God!
There is one more thing. Your interpretation of Matthew 12:39-40 is out of context, and misunderstood. I have seen many use this to justify that we should not be looking for signs, but that wasn’t the point of the verse. The Jews wanted Jesus to prove that He was the Messiah, and He was upset with them that they could not recognize Him without a sign. We should not demand a sign from God to believe, that is the lesson to be learned. Jesus said no sign would be given to them, but notice that didn’t stop Him from healing the sick, raising the dead, and casting out demonic-spirits. These are all considered signs and wonders.
I agree with you that people shouldn’t search for signs and wonders, or base their faith on them. As I stated before, I haven’t met such people. I’m sorry if you have, and if it has hindered you from seeing the simple truth that it is normal Christianity to have signs following us (not the other way around). After all, we are children of the Most High, and we are seated with Christ in heavenly places.
Justin:
Good response to a response to a response…
First off, brother: If I ever gave you the impression that I was trying to rip you apart on the Information Superhighway, then please accept my apologies.
It’s not my intention to though I might come across sounding like that (1) without non-verbal cues in cyberspace to indicate otherwise and (2) I’m really passionate about defending God’s Truth which I think you can sometimes plainly notice on my blog ranting about some aspect of “modern” Christianity.
In addition, rest assured that there was no bitterness involved.
In turn, and I pray I am not reading wrongly, I hope you don’t mean to point a mean finger at me or anyone involved in that debate on the opposing side with what you wrote: “I have seen many people who spend a lot of their time making arguments against signs and wonders”.
At the end of the day, you know that I do still disagree with you to a point, and I think it’s enough we leave it at that, else too much energy will be spent on this, and not on edifying each other — to encourage one another in the faith and through trials.
Indeed, we should count ourselves blessed to be able to engage in such debate. Countless Christians face persecution in other parts of the world where the mere confession to being a Christian can cost one their life.
That said, I will fight tooth and nail against anyone that says that the prosperity gospel is alright (because it is another gospel) or that it is Biblical to say that Mary is the Co-Redeemer.
In closing, I don’t deny signs and wonders — heck, I’d fall to the ground praising God if I ever experienced one — but (just taking an example) I don’t subscribe to the non-human tongues spoken today in some churches.
Shalom Aleichem.
Note: I’m re-producing this comment at my blog as well.
Comment Submitted: March 18th, 2008 at 9:46 pm
Right on, Justin!
So many Christians are missing it, they spend so much time on the false, that they don’t have time to enjoy the true.
Even during Moses’ time, there were false signs done by the Magicians. But no one denied the true signs done by the servants of God.
The world says, “See and believe”, Jesus came saying, “Believe and you shall see”. Never does He contradict Himself.
We are not SIGN-SEEKERS, we are GOD-SEEKERS, and SIGNS WILL FOLLOW.
Justin, one thing the Lord has told me….”STOP uniting with those who do not build your faith up”.
This is how I’d expound that: If these people cause you to doubt what He has said, stop fellowshiping with them or try convincing them but pray for them in sincerity and out of love.
After the whole talk with Phil the Lord reminded me of past experiences where He moved and I was humbled…Here is one:
I had a whole group against the same thing in college. I tried my best to convince them, but they did not believe. I knew that all the biblical explanations I offered could not convince them because they had been taught wrong or experience proved to them that what I was teaching was not true. 3 years later, we had a visitation from the Lord in that group where people who rejected this once and stood against it, experienced the very thing I spoke of. We had the gift of knowledge in operation exposing things in the life of people gathered there [even unbelievers were dumbfounded by the reality of it]. We had the prophetic gift operating and giving personal words of encouragement, edification and comfort to people. And the funny part of it all, I had nothing to do with it. God did it all! It humbled me. I had prayed for 3 long years for God to convince them and God did. God gave us dreams and visions. One which I had was a dream of a woman travailing in prayer, agonizing crying “Send revival! Send revival”….and a wall breaking open with river gushing out. We received a word of prophecy from a Jewish lady far off in Oklahoma that revival was going to hit our group and then the college. 2 months later we had a crusade [never in the history of that university was there a crusade] and we had people come to the Lord. They had a bigger crusade this year as well and I heard the follow-up was terrific!
Blessed be the name of the Lord!
Sidharth
Comment Submitted: March 18th, 2008 at 10:45 pm
wow, look at what Jonathan wrote on the blog. I didn’t know he’d touch this verse again! =)
Sidharth
Comment Submitted: March 18th, 2008 at 10:53 pm
Hello Justin,
If you remember, I have never commented on your video here or elsewhere. To be perfectly honest, I haven’t watched your video and have no plans to either. The Internet is too slow here for that. I commented on your public accusation that Mike Oppenheimer of Let us Reason was a false teacher. Everything escalated from there.
Who are the elect? Are they current professing Christians? Could the current Pope be one of the elect? How about the atheist across the street or the person who just killed your neighbor? Obviously some on my list are currently deceived but does that mean they aren’t of the elect? We don’t know who the elect are. We have a very good idea based on Galatians 5:22-23 but we don’t know for sure.
Ever believed a lie? I have as I’m sure that most here have. Ever sin? I do as I’m ABSOLUTELY sure all here do. Why? Because we’ve believed the deception. Correct me if I’m wrong here but you claim that’s impossible if we have the “Spirit of Truth”? Is it really impossible. I reason it’s very possible to be of the elect and be led astray.
Watchmen/Apologists use Matthew 24:24 to warn others. We don’t use it out of “fear” or to prove our cases. Just because we take a hard stance against the false doesn’t mean we deny the authentic.
I’ll leave you to ponder this question..
How can you be absolutely certain you know the difference between the real and the false when both make identical claims to the same Gift?
Comment Submitted: March 19th, 2008 at 7:24 am
There is one way to know the true from the false: who is being glorified in it. Satan will never do anything to glorify Jesus.
Comment Submitted: March 20th, 2008 at 12:24 am
That was a great response, Justin, and I like how you emphasized that signs and wonders should be following us, not us following signs and wonders. Our focus is on God, and His focus is on working the Holy Spirit within us. To condemn signs and wonders or to look to them for guidance is missing the point on both sides of the issue.
Be blessed, Jared
Comment Submitted: March 27th, 2008 at 12:30 pm